Perverts are on the Loose, Protect the Children!

The French are opposing Polanski’s arrest because he is talented. The fact that he sodomized and raped a child does not seem to bother them. It is very difficult to understand the logic behind their opposition. Americans on the other hand are dedicated not to let him get away, with what he did, for the sake of fairness. No one should be above the law. I love the idea that no one is above the law. Although O.J. Simpson seems to have been above the law.

I grew up, admiring Michael Jackson. Rest in peace, I am still a big fan. Still the fact that he was accused of molesting children more than once and ended up settling out of court makes me feel uneasy about the whole thing. I love Michael Jackson. I want to believe that he was framed more than once just because he was so popular. I want to believe that they wanted to smear him, which is why he was accused over and over for the same crime.

Still I cannot help but question, was he above the law only because we all loved him so much?

If he was; the suffering that those innocent children might have gone through is a horrible thought. Money can not make that go away. 

Americans do not understand why the French want Polanski to get away with his crime. I do not understand why Americans are sometimes against the double standard and other times not.

Is there a guilty conscious for all the unjust treatment that African Americans have received in the past; that now if they are popular, they cannot be charged even for the crimes that they actually have committed?

Mitterrand the Culture Minister of France has no problem admitting that he likes to travel to Thailand as he enjoys having sex with boys. Naturally he opposes Polanski’s arrest.

When did it become OK for perverts to openly express their actions and desires? They actually seem to expect acceptance. Some claim that he should not loose his public position as he did not commit a crime. According to this logic, if one satisfies their perverted needs in Thailand it is OK. The boy who suffers there is no ones problem. After all he did not break the law in France. The fact that he took advantage of an innocent child does not bother anyone.

When the 17 year old German boy Marco assaulted the 13 year old British girl Charlotte in Turkey, her parents pressed charges and he was imprisoned for assaulting a minor.  Somehow Germans found this very unfair. In Stern Magazine Marco’s father critisized the verdict as unjust. He called the Turkish view on the issue “Glorifizierung der Jungfräulichkeit”*which means Turks glorify virginity.

His son abused a thirteen year old girl and he blames the Turkish justice system to be way too sensitive on virginity issues. Would it have been OK to abuse a thirteen year old in Germany?

I am sure the German law is as clear as the Turkish law that you cannot push to have sex with a child.

The same magazine features articles on Polanski, frowning on the idea of raping a thirteen year old. So what Polanski did was not good according to the magazine but Marco should have gotten away with sexual abuse of a child.

So the Pervert’s logic somehow justifies perverted actions as long as they are commited away from home. Mitterrand chooses Thailand, Marco chose Turkey and Polanski chose America. The same logic makes perverts very sensitive people. They are deeply offended to be held accountable of their actions.

So the supportes believe that Polanski should be free because he made good movies. Mitterrand should not be judged for his actions as he did not commit a crime, in France. Marco should not have been charged, he did not abuse the British child in Germany. These Turks are too sensitive about this whole virginity thing anyway.

Morality is far away from these arguments. It makes me wonder how these supporters would feel, if their children were raped or sexually abused. Would they still think that an artist, every now and then can do crazy things and one should look away or claim that it is OK because it happened abroad?

Martin Luther King said „Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.“

 

I am hoping that not letting Polanski get away with what he did, even thirty years after it happened will only be the beginning. When it comes to protecting a child’s innocence, we should all be alerted and there should be no loopholes, or get out of jail free cards for anyone. A child is still a child in Thailand, America, Africa, Turkey or France.

It is the adults’ responsibility to guard and protect children anywhere and everywhere in the world.  

Follow me on Twitter@banugokyar

Source:

*Marco Weiss akzeptiert Schuldspruch nicht 16. September 2009,

http://www.stern.de/panorama/missbrauchsprozess-in-antalya-marco-weiss-akzeptiert-schuldspruch-nicht-1509447.html

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28 Comments

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28 responses to “Perverts are on the Loose, Protect the Children!

  1. Andreas

    Charlottes was not raped. You are lying about the facts. The court saw only a sexual abuse and also that is wrong. Charlotte told Marco that she was already 15 and started the sexual activities. Marco did nothing to deserve punishment and that is also the view of the German prosecution.

    What an ugly article. You are right in the case of Polanski but you are totally wrong in the case of Marco. You are not able to help any child if you are fighting against the innocents. Children are able to lie and in Marcos case he is the victim and Charlotte the offender.

  2. Andreas

    Marco is innocent! That is fact in Germany and you should know that. There was no rape.

  3. Robert

    I can’t believe what I have to read here. Really everybody knows that Marco Weiss is innocent and that Charlotte lied not only about her age.

  4. Corinna

    What a stupid article. There was no rape and everybody knows that Marco is the victim and innocent.

  5. shakti108

    Dear All

    Thank your for the comments. I am sorry that you are so deeply offended about Marco. Still none of your comments are based on facts. Marco is innocent as all German’s think so would not hold up in court really.

    My intention was not to target Marco only. Your comments only prove the point of the article that people’s minds get cloudy sometimes due to favoritism of nationality or any other excuse.

    Mitterrand believes that he is innocent as he abuses kids in Thailand. You believe Marco is innocent as he is a fellow German. The French think what Polanski did was OK as he is an artist. What about the children that are victimized while adults find ways of justifying what happened?

    Andreas you say the court saw a “sexual abuse ” would you be OK with it if Marco only sexually abused your 13-year-old sister or daughter?

  6. Andreas

    Sexual abuse must not mean a lot. As long Charlotte started the activities and lied about their age there is no reason to punish Marco. That is German law §15 and also in Turky. The point is that Marco had no chance to know the right age of Charlotte. Therefore he is innocent whereas Polanski is guilty. That is not a question of nationality. And I know the facts very well. I think you know that the prosecutor of Lüneburg confirmed Marcos innocent also after the sentence.

  7. Andreas

    Additional to what I have already written I would focus your attention to the neutral page of wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Weiss) and the press release of the prosecution of Lüneburg (http://cdl.niedersachsen.de/blob/images/C55736576_L20.pdf). I think that you are able to read a little bit German. So far the facts you asked for.

    Petting between a 13 years old girl and an older boy happen every day several thousand times in Germany and England. Sure, often the parents don’t know a lot about the sexual development of their children. However, a criminal complaint is rather rare and a judge of a juvenile court deals very sensitive in such a case. Education is here the point and not penalty.

    You should know that many of Marcos supporters are parents of sons AND daughters. You should know that there is even a real rape victim which supports Marco because the lies of Charlotte are an affront against real rape victim.

    Charlotte lied about her age, there was no rape and no psychic trauma, all proven even by the Turkish court.

    Marcos innocence bases on the fact that he was not able to see the real age of Charlotte. Even a gynecologist was not able to do so. There was clearly no intention for a sexual abuse. There was petting by mutual agreement with a girl who said that she was already 15.

    Marcos case belongs to the other side of rape and sexual abuse, the false accusation of boys and men and fathers. It happens too often and more and more the people are aware about that problem.

    You are right in the other cases but totally wrong in the case of Marco. Therefore your article is not good written. You should be more carefully in your arguments and you should be more carefully with your investigations.

  8. shakti108

    Dear Andreas

    I hope you do realize that Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. So it is not mistake proof. A big PR campaign does not change facts.

    I have read a lot of German press on this issue and noticed that everyone is so sure that he is innocent for no apparent reason. Charlotte’s mother pressed charges! Why would she do that if it was just innocent teenagers fooling around?
    She claims that Charlotte met Marco in the lobby and a few hours later he sneaked into her room while Charlotte was asleep.

    Can you imagine how creepy that is? and then she was abused as Marco admitted.

    A thirteen year old could have tried to get the attention of an older person in the lobby, that does not change the fact that she is only 13! She does not know any better..she is only a child!

    Secondly when the Turkish court tried to release Marco until trial, it was Charlotte’s mother who opposed again! Why would a mother of two teenagers insist on keeping a boy like Marco in prison if he just cuddled with the girl?

  9. shakti108

    Dear Andreas

    The point of my article was not Marco but protecting the innocence of children. Below you can see a paragraph from an article in a German magazine. It says that a third of all girls in Germany already have sexual experiences by age 13, although Charlotte was in fact a virgin.

    Now apply this logic to the Polanski case, please. Basically she is saying it is OK!! Kids in Germany are sexually active! What is the big deal!!! It does not sound right, but that is the argument.

    I think it is important to factor in that Charlotte’s mother in fact called the police the day after the event and made a complaint. So it is not like the police went out on its own to go after teenagers, who were cuddling. The mother complained, as apparently Charlotte did not want Marco. So to say that come on most 13 years old are already sexually active in Germany! So what? This 13-year-old was not active and did not want to be and everyone calls her a liar for that??? Is it so hard to believe that!

    She even ties the whole thing to the European Union which is a whole different subject!

    So focusing on the issue of morality again, if and when adults as in the below example, justify sexual advances from the kids, how can they protect themselves?

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,490525,00.html

    In Frommel’s opinion, what happened between the German high school student and the British girl should be viewed and assessed exclusively as “an exemplary case of socially typical behavior.” It’s known, she adds, that a third of all girls in Germany already have sexual experiences by age 13. She thinks the case would have closed by now in Germany without any further investigation, even if Marco Weiss had known that the girl was only 13 — assuming no violence was involved. The case is an example for Frommel of the “terror of outdated ideas about morality,” and suggests “that the Turks have not yet arrived in Europe.”

  10. Andreas

    Dear Shakti108,

    Thank you for the fast answer. Yes, Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia but it is very hard to change something what is wrong. Every change has to be checked by only a few people and you always have to give references.

    More important is the press release of the prosecution of Lüneburg (http://cdl.niedersachsen.de/blob/images/C55736576_L20.pdf). What are your comments about their arguments?

    The reason for Charlotte’s Mother to press charges is quite simple. At first she was in trouble due to breach of the duty of supervision. Also important to know is that she was in custody battle with her ex-husband. Therefore, Marco had to be guilty.

    “She claims that Charlotte met Marco in the lobby and a few hours later he sneaked into her room while Charlotte was asleep.”

    That is totally wrong. The both met in a Disco days before where no children is allowed to be there. During the week Charlotte and her sister spend a lot of time with Marco and Sasha, a boy from England. During the last night of Marco’s holydays the girls asked Marco to look for Sasha and then both boys were invited to come on the room of the girls. At first Marco and Charlotte were on the balcony and then Charlotte’s sister and Sasha and Marco and Charlotte changed the places. Marco and Charlotte were together with a girlfriend of Charlotte in the room. Only the girlfriend allegedly falls asleep and Charlotte started the careless. The both were alone for perhaps 15- 20 minutes. No time for Marco to wait till Charlotte is sleeping so deeply that he was able to undress the girl and to rape her and minutes later both are back on the balcony to allow Marco to say goodbye to the others.

    You should know that Sasha fully confirmed Marco’s giving of evidence. You should also know that the evidences of Charlotte and her sister do not fit together. There are important contradictions. And the German prosecution called Charlotte’s evidence very inconsistent.

    Yes, there was a forbidden sexual contact between Charlotte and Marco. They had petting together and Marco had an ejaculation. Charlotte was afraid to become pregnant and wanted to go to a gynecologist. I think it is not difficult to understand that she was not able to say to her mother what happened really. She needed a story and what started with a lie ended in a disaster, mainly for Marco. Charlotte had till today not the power to say the truth. For her but also for her mother the trouble would be too big. Till today there is no simple way to say the truth. Perhaps when Charlotte will be 18.

    Yes, Charlotte was a child, but also a child is able to understand what happened with Marco and also a child is able to lie and CHARLOTTE WAS ACTIVE. Please don’t forget, even the Turkish court saw no evidence for a rape. And the sexual abuse is not given due to the fact that Marco didn’t know the right age of the girl.

    The Polanski case is totally different. He was adult, he knew the age of the girl and he had carnal knowledge with the child. He is guilty, no question.

    “So focusing on the issue of morality again, if and when adults as in the below example, justify sexual advances from the kids, how can they protect themselves?”

    The point is to protect kids for adults not to protect kids to have sexual experiences together. The protection age of kids is in conflict with the reality and always boy are in trouble because girls growth up faster and looking always for an older boy. In England there was the story of an 12 years old boy who could became a father. The girl was 14. Nobody charged the girl for sexual abuse.

    I see your points but you should see your mistakes in the case of Marco. I really have not the feeling that you know the details of the case very well. Unfortunately also a lot of the German newspapers wrote a lot of stupid things. The Wikipedia page is well done. The spiegel had a good title story end of 2007 and also the stern.

    Best regards

    Andreas

  11. Corinna

    Andreas, you are absolutely right!

  12. Robert K.

    “When the 17 year old German boy Marco assaulted the 13 year old British girl Charlotte in Turkey, her parents pressed charges and he was imprisoned for assaulting a minor. Somehow Germans found this very unfair. In Stern Magazine Marco’s father critisized the verdict as unjust. He called the Turkish view on the issue “Glorifizierung der Jungfräulichkeit”*which means Turks glorify virginity.

    His son abused a thirteen year old girl and he blames the Turkish justice system to be way too sensitive on virginity issues. Would it have been OK to abuse a thirteen year old in Germany?

    I am sure the German law is as clear as the Turkish law that you cannot push to have sex with a child.”

    “Assaulted” is the wrong word. You should replace it by “assumedly abused”. However, the point is that Marco didn’t know the real age of Charlotte. Have a look in §15 and §17 (error as to the prohibited nature of an act) of the German law. You have something near it in England and Turkey. These are simply one of the basic laws of a constitutional state.

    When Marco’s father Ralf called the Turkish view on the issue “Glorifizierung der Jungfräulichkeit” he wanted to say that this mentality blocked the view of the judge on the own law. We all know the sense of honor in questions of virginity in Turkey and the Islamic world. Therefore I think Marco’s father was absolutely right.

    Please don’t forget that the German prosecutor of Lüneburg had a look on all evidences in this case, when he called the Turkish sentence wrong. Prof. Kühne, a German consultant in human rights for the Turkish Government called the sentence a scandal of justice. In Germany Marco is therefore absolutely innocent. The Turkish sentence means nothing in Germany and there will be a revision in Turkey.

    It is possible to call your words about Marco libel and that is really a crime. It is also a crime to use always his full name. He was underage and the trial was in camera. It is part of the crime against Marco that everybody knows his full name and his face. You want to protect children. Marco was also a child!

    Robert

  13. shakti108

    Dear Robert

    I would like to draw your attention to the fact that Marco is a convicted felon who did his jail time. So it is not alleged, it is a fact by law. Secondly I would like to draw your attention to the fact that he admitted to having been sexually involved with Charlotte, who was only 13. It is the easiest thing to deny prior knowledge of her age. As you might be familiar, the laws of the country where the crime is committed are valid and this is a universal fact. So German’s finding him not guilty is merely an opinion, since the crime was committed in Turkey it was out of their jurisdiction of law. Given all these I can actually call him by his name as he is a convicted sex offender.

    I hate to bluntly break you the news, but you have no grounds or proof that he is innocent.
    He sneaks into a thirteen year old girls room, makes sexual advances, the poor girls mother calls the police and all you can say that she was a sexual child even though she is virgin. What kind of twisted logic is that?

    As to Marco’s father’s comment about virginity, it is irrelevant because the girl was in fact still a virgin after the assault. Also Marco was not convicted because of Turkish values of virginity, it is not like the police made it their business, to meddle into her bedroom. He was convicted as the girl’s mother made an official complaint that a 17-year-old boy assaulted her 13-year-old daughter. He did not deny it!

    I also realize that your tendency is to take German public opinion above Turkish law. I hate to remind you that German public opinion is not considered the most credible given that about 70 years ago a whole nation agreed on the idea that it was not such a bad idea to get rid of jews and gypsies and crippled ones, to hunt them down all over Europe. They convinced themselves that they were right and hired engineers, built gas chambers…..you know the story…! They were so sure that they were right as it was general public German opinion. I do not want to offend you by reminding of the past therefore I should also add that I admire many aspects of Germany, what they have add to the world in philosophy, music and science. Everyone knows that a German car is very reliant! Everyone also knows that Germans sometimes get carried away in their ideas of morality.

    But as I tried to express in the article our opinion on very clear things should not be clouded by the fact the committer of crime is a fellow citizen, or a celebrity or a public figure. We have to remember that 13 year is a very young age. If the girl would not have complained this would not have been an issue. So she did not want him but he did not care…and that makes him an offender even at the age of 17. The fact that he did not brutalize her physically does not make it right.

  14. Robert K.

    “I would like to draw your attention to the fact that Marco is a convicted felon who did his jail time.”

    I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the conviction is not yet valid. Even then it would be only valid in Turkey. And his jail time was period of remand.

    “It is the easiest thing to deny prior knowledge of her age.”

    Perhaps, but Marco had to prove that fact and if you would know the details of the case, you would know that that fact is the best proven one of all. As Andreas already mentioned, even the gynecologist Dr. Hekim was not able to see Charlotte’s right age. When even a gynecologist is not able to do so, how should a boy like Marco?

    “I hate to bluntly break you the news, but you have no grounds or proof that he is innocent.”

    I hate to bluntly break you the news, but the decision of the German prosecutor means a little bit more than the decision of a judge of a state that is only on the way to become a constitutional state (see the last EC report).

    “He sneakes into a thirteen year old girl’s room”

    Sorry, I think Andreas has clarified that point already.

    “So she did not want him but he did not care…and that makes him an offender even at the age of 17.”

    Also wrong. At the gynecologist Charlotte called Marco a friend and that nothing happened. Later under the pressure of her mother the story changed completely and became more and more implausible. Marco’s version is much more likely. AND THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT MARCO’S VERSION IS WRONG. Also the Turkish judge did not believe Charlotte’s version because the sentence would be then based on rape.

    And perhaps you should know that the view on Marco’s case is very similar also in other European countries and Marco’s supporters are very international. Perhaps you should have a closer look on the “wish you luck” card for Marco:

    http://www.hilfe-fuer-marco.de

    http://www.hilfe-fuer-marco.de/pages/online-gruDFkarte.php

    Robert

  15. Andreas

    Dear Shakti108,

    When you think a person is 16 or 17 and the person told you that he is 15 and you are hardly able to believe that, would you think about the possibility that the person is only 13?

    Sorry, there was no initial suspicion and no law of no country requires visionary power.

    Nobody knows the written opinion of the Turkish court at the moment. But it seems so that the court ignored that very important point to come to a sentence. Therefore the criticism and therefore the belief that the sentence is wrong. No doubt about that. And also you should know that there are a lot of wrongful convictions especially in Turkey.

    Best regards

    Andreas

  16. shakti108

    Dear Andreas and Dear Robert

    Below you can see an article on the subject in British news. So Robert your point that total EU agrees on your idea is not a fact but your opinion. As you will see if you read the link.

    Besides, Turkey is an Independent Republic. Crimes that are committed in Turkey are judged in Turkish courts according to Turkish Law. You personally denying it, does not really mean much. Facts are facts.

    Below you can also see that it is not only me but other newspapers that call Marco a sex offender. He did his time and was conditionally released, as you can see below, so I do not know what makes you assume the conviction is not valid. As I said from the very beginning to your oppositions and a good PR campaign does not change facts. I can see that you got carried away with this PR campaign to the extend that you would deny facts such as his conviction. You are telling me that I should not use his name….Hello!! the guy wrote a book…he is not really trying to be incognito!!! He is trying to get cash out of the whole thing…and I can see why! He abuses a 13-year-old yet somehow becomes a celebrity.

    Andreas I imagine you think that there are a lot of wrongful convictions in Turkey, not because you have academic, statistic information on the matter but just because that seems right in your opinion.

    Anyway, I do not know why you are all in such denial. Maybe the PR campaign that took place in Germany got to you.If you are really so into this case I suggest you all try to read other press too which will help you get a less biased opinion.

    I hope all is clear…..Ciao 🙂

    German goes free after abusing British child

    Date: 16 September 2009
    A Turkish court has given a German teenager a two-and-a-half-year suspended prison term for sexually abusing a 13-year-old British girl while they were both on holiday.
    Marco Weiss, now 19, spent eight months in a jail in the Mediterranean city of Antalya in 2007 on charges of sexually abusing a child, before he was freed and returned to Germany.

    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/international/German-goes-free-after-abusing.5654477.jp

  17. Ortrud L.

    I hate it that every idiot means he could use Marco and his case for his own purpose. The boy was punished enough! And for what? Because a girl seduced him and lied about her age.

  18. Andreas

    Dear Shakti108,

    I think Robert means more the people in Europe. It is clear that the English press is more on the side of the English family. That is normal. The problem with England was also that especially 2007 there were close to nothing whereas the Germans are on the street for Marco and the Medias are full of stories every day. However, there were many interviews also with English experts and all of them mentioned the behaviour of the English kids and the problem of the many kid mothers and the criticized the behaviour of Charlotte’s mother.

    However, the article of the British News is not too bad.

    British News: “German goes free after abusing British child”
    Okay, a typical headline and a little bit opinion-forming.
    British News: “A Turkish court has given a German teenager a two-and-a-half-year suspended prison term for sexually abusing a 13-year-old British girl while they were both on holiday.
    Marco Weiss, now 19, spent eight months in a jail in the Mediterranean city of Antalya in 2007 on charges of sexually abusing a child, before he was freed and returned to Germany.
    The court said yesterday that he will remain free but be monitored over the next two years and six months. He will be required to serve his remaining prison term if he convicts a crime.”

    Okay, here are some missing and wrong information. Not two-and-a-half-year but two years, two months and twenty days. Suspended sentence means also that Marco had not to spend one single day in prison. The much too long period of remand was therefore an extremely kind of over-punishment without any sentence. You should also know that due to the very hard conditions in a Turkish prison the time there is count threefold in Germany. Therefore, in Germany the 8 months in prison are charged as 2 years. You see what that mean? A suspended sentence in Turkey means nothing for Marco. In Germany the Turkish sentence will be not accepted due to the lack of mutual legal assistance agreement between Germany and Turkey. But if Germany would accept the sentence the 2 years are already over, so that it would make no sense. Do you see the bad irony of the Turkish sentence?

    British News: “Weiss maintained they had become close and ended up in the girl’s hotel bedroom one night where they had physical contact but no intercourse. He also claimed the girl said she was 15.”

    Those are the facts and because it is conclusively proved that Marco didn’t know that Charlotte was only 13 he is innocent!

    British News: “Before the hearing, defence lawyer Ahmet Ersoy said his client would appeal if convicted. “We cannot accept something other than an acquittal,” he added.”

    Therefore the Turkish sentence is not yet valid (in German “rechtskräftig” = absolute, in force, legal, valid, legally binding). At first the higher court in Ankara has to decide about the revision (it is not an appeal!).

    British News: “The case has been followed closely in Germany, where Weiss’ lengthy custody drew intense criticism. Foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier appealed to Turkey to let Weiss return home.”

    Not only Mr. Steinmeier. At the end the list of German and European politician were really impressive. The problem was that based on the very weak evidence the period of remand was much too long especially for a minor. And with the decision of Charlotte not to appear for the Turkish court to make a valid giving of evidence every judge normally had to discontinue the suit. But not so the Turkish judge and therefore he allowed the English family to have influence on the length of the time in prison for Marco (what is clearly not allowed). Please don’t forget that Marco only spend so much time in prison because the court waited so long for the written testify of Charlotte which was legally invalid at the beginning (the judge and the defence lawyer must to have the right to ask the girl).

    British News: “The trial dragged on as the court demanded various reports detailing the girl’s physical and mental condition from British authorities.”

    Yes, and the lawyer of Charlotte’s mother told that Charlotte were not able to come due to her mental condition and also therefore we wanted to have a hard punishment of Marco up to 15 years! Later it became clear that the report that should document the psychic trauma of Charlotte was not written by a doctor but by carer. Even the Turkish prosecutor declined the report. Do you see the criminal strategy of the English family to punish Marco with all possible dirty tricks?

    British News: “On his return to Germany, Weiss wrote a book – Marco W. – My 247 days in a Turkish prison – detailing his time in the jail at Antalya.”

    The book is very good and the best source for all information about the case. For Marco it was the best way to say the truth about the night with Charlotte and what happened during the 8 months in prison with his own words after the many articles and the much wrong news. For him it was also a good way to get on with his own trauma. Money was not the reason for the book. Otherwise Marco had accepted one of the offers on a much bigger publisher.

    Shakti108: “Besides, Turkey is an Independent Republic. Crimes that are committed in Turkey are judged in Turkish courts according to Turkish Law. You personally denying it, does not really mean much. Facts are facts.”

    Yes, but it must be allowed to criticize also a Turkish judge if he is obviously wrong. Facts are facts and all known facts are showing that Marco is innocent. Not because I and Millions of People in Germany and Europe are thinking so but due to the fact that also the German justice had a look on the case. In 2007 the responsible prosecutor in Lüneburg (close to Uelzen) started a preliminary proceedings. Lüneburg and Antalya worked well together and at the end Lüneburg had all Turkish evidence in that case on the table. Due to the fact that Marco is back in Germany and the Turkish sentence has no meaning in Germany only the decision of Lüneburg is important for him. Based on exactly the same evidence, Lüneburg and Antalya came to different results. Both agree to see no evidence for a rape. But whereas Lüneburg did not see any evidence for sexual abuse Antalya confirmed the sexual abuse. Do you see the point? Only one of them could be right. The law is nearly the same in both countries. I am German. I believe that the German authorities are right. Especially because they explained their decision very well whereas nobody knows how the Turkish judge could ignore the fact that Marco did not know Charlottes real age. And that is really the only point. Marco acted without intent. Without intent he was in an error as to the prohibited nature of an act (§15 and 17 of the German law). Therefore Marco is innocent.

    Skakti1008: “Below you can also see that it is not only me but other newspapers that call Marco a sex offender. He did his time and was conditionally released, as you can see below, so I do not know what makes you assume the conviction is not valid.”

    As explained before due to the appeal or better revision. You have to wait for the decision of the higher court. I think in one or two years we will know if the Turkish sentence will be valid or legal or in force or whatever the right English word should be.

    Skakti1008: “Andreas I imagine you think that there are a lot of wrongful convictions in Turkey, not because you have academic, statistic information on the matter but just because that seems right in your opinion.”

    No, but I know that Marco is not the first case of an innocent German with trouble at a Turkish Court. There was the case of German-Kurd who was for two years innocent in a Turkish prison. There was the case of the father of a stone collecting son, etc.
    You should have a look on the European Court of Human Rights in Straßburg. Turkey has there a top place. You should read the EC reports about the situation of the Turkish justice system and you should read the reports of Amnesty International.

    Skakti1008: “Anyway, I do not know why you are all in such denial. Maybe the PR campaign that took place in Germany got to you. If you are really so into this case I suggest you all try to read other press too which will help you get a less biased opinion.”

    Would be interesting to see what you would think if an English boy with a German girl ….
    I know a lot of good and bad written stories about that case. However, important is only the decision of Lüneburg. I am German, should I say that Lüneburg is wrong and Antalya is right?

    Best regards
    Andreas

  19. Robert K.

    @Andreas: Perfect. I could not say it better.

    However, it is really important to know that the Turkish sentence would be only valid in Turkey (If the revision would be denied).

    The British News with “He will be required to serve his remaining prison term if he convicts a crime” is therefore not right. He will be required to serve his remaining prison term if he convicts a crime IN TURKEY (!).

    :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    Robert

  20. melek

    I think the point of the article has been missed because of Marco. Is there anybody who comprehend what the writer tells?
    Corinna, do you think that article is stupid just because of a part that you do not agree? Did you try to understand subject and what about the rest of the article?

    Virginity could be important in Turkey but Turkey has a secular governance and the laws are based on secular regime not on religion. If it happened in Germany, he will probably not considered guilty, but unfortunatelly it happened in Turkey. It is totally wrong to blame a country and its laws for the result. It should be considered only as an incident.

  21. Corinna

    Dear Melek,

    Yes I know. The article is not so bad but the case of Marco is a very special subject particularly in Germany, particularly if the author is British. One wrong ingredient could destroy the whole work and that happened here.

    Yes, Turkey has a secular governance but that does not change mentality and mentality is influenced by religion. However, Marco’s father said much more during the press conference. He also listed all the mistakes during the proceeding and the high interest of the Turkish court to justify the much too long remand. A very important point was also the fact that Turkey has changed its code of criminal procedure as one important point to have a chance to get a member of the European Union. However, especially the older judges have their problems with the new procedure and some of them are opposed it more or less openly. It is an inner Turkish conflict, a time of changes and Marco and his case was right in the middle.

    You are also right that it is totally wrong to blame a country and its laws for the results. But it is right to blame this court and this judge for the results. And Marco’s father made exactly that point clear during the press conference.

    Corinna

  22. shakti108

    Dear Corinna

    You and other readers who commented on my article accused me of using information that is not true and I made it clear that the points in my article were based on facts. This article is not about Marco. If you are so sure of his innocence, you should not feel threatened by an article that merely states the obvious, which is that he had been arrested for abusing a 13-year-old girl.

    The lengthy procedure of his trial is a whole different topic.

    By the way I am not British. Anyway regardless of nationality, I believe that adults should be protecting all children. How can a child defend her/himself when adults use their intellect to justify something that is obviously, absolutely wrong. Listen to yourselves you are all defending the idea that a 13-year-old brought this on herself, plus it is OK, what is the big deal, she wanted it, she asked for it, she manipulated him… etc etc….typical responses of abusers, to justify their perverse actions…none of these excuses make this right….!

    How do you expect a 13-year-old to defend herself against a 17-year-old when everyone accuses her for bringing this upon herself? She is just a child who has not a fully formed opinion of right from wrong and could actually believe that she deserved this when all adults say so…..and that is another thing that we need to protect the children from.

    Melek thank you for the comment.

  23. Corinna

    Dear Shakti,

    A 13 years old girl is often like a 15 years old boy. Marco was 17. That is right, but he was 17 only for a few days. It is not important wha a typical abuser says. We are speaking about a very special case. There are not many good information about the case available in English.

    I also believe that adults should be protection all children but I have no illusion about children. They are very different and some of them could be also criminal. Marco is a victim and should be protected, too. He is the real victim. Your article would be fine. But is would be really better if you had avoid to use Marcos case in the way you did. If you would know all details like we know, you would have a different view.

    What chnace had Marco to avoid that all? How should a boy react when I nice girl which made belief him to be 15 would like to touch him? Petting is a very nomal behaviour between young people. The responsibility of adults is also not to see a criminal act when nearly nothing is behind it.

    The protection age of a child is in other countries only till 12. Also that should be seen.

    Best regards

    Corinna

  24. Andreas

    Dear Shakti108,

    The point is not that Charlotte wanted it or that she asked for it or that she manipulated Marco. Many 13 years old girls are already sexually mature. They are curious and have already wishes. It is also absolutely okay that Charlotte wanted to touch Marco but it was absolutely wrong to make him believe that she was already 15. There was no need for Marco to say no and that is the problem. Have a look on Charlotte. The photo is from 2007 when she was back in England whereas Marco was still in prison. She is the largest girl on the photo. Would you believe that she is only 13?

    Charlotte said the truth when she spoke with the Turkish gynaecologist but changed then the story more and more at the Turkish police station, at the Turkish prosecutor and at last at the British police station. There are different contradictory statements which fits not together and disagree with the testifies of the attestors and even with the one of her own sister.

    In Germany and I think also in England we believe that the sexual development of kids should be not criminalised. Even when a 13 years old girl would have sexual contact with a 17 years old boy, every judge of a juvenile court would be very carefully to punish the boy. Education would be in the centre of a possible sentence. In Antalya there was no judge of a juvenile court. Marco was together with more than 30 murderer and other dangerous criminals in one small common room. It is important to understand the different Turkish mentality and the different meaning of virginity in Turkey to understand the different view of the case. Therefore Marco’s father was right to mention it. It was not mean as apology for a sexual abuse.

    Best regards

    Andreas

    PS. When you are not British where you are from?

  25. shakti108

    Dear All

    We clearly have to agree to disagree. Should you be interested, below you can see an article on a similar subject and my views expressed from a different angle.

    Thank You

    https://shakti108.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/promoting-prostitution/

  26. Andreas

    Dear Shakti108,

    I have just seen that you are Turk and that you are living in Istanbul. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Your English is really good :-).
    However, that explains a lot but not all.

    Best regards

    Andreas

  27. shakti108

    Dear Andreas

    I like to think of my views as a global because even if the 17 year old abuser was a Turk and the 13 year old girl was from another nationality I cannot imagine myself, siding with a fellow citizen just because we share the same nationality. Anyway in this case just like the court I have no reason to pick one side over the other with national feelings because both parties are foreigners.

    That was kind of the point in the article too. I believe that we shall not allow such feelings cloud our judgement, as the truth can be very simple once stripped from all those ideas.

  28. Andreas

    Dear Shakti108,

    As you can see it seems to be not as easy to see the truth. Whereas I have no idea why you are not able to see the innocence of Marco you have the contrary problem.

    And we both know that the court and also Turkey have been hardly criticized. Therefore there was no neutral and fair reporting in Turkey and also therefore there was an interest for a conviction. However, the problem also for the Turkey was that the trial was really a farce.

    The facts are known but I think you have there also other facts in mind which are clearly not true. And I think you have problems to understand that it is really possible not to know the right age of a child and that that fact makes the difference (As you know, even the judge saw no rape and that means the petting happened on her own will.).
    It happens today perhaps more often and judges have to be very carefully but if you are able to prove it every judge has to accept it. There was only one way for the Turkish judge to disprove Marco’s predication. He had to make his own impression of Charlotte. Due to the fact that Charlotte never came back to Antalya and to the court the judge had to accept the evidences. That is simple the law also in Turkey.

    Best regards

    Andreas

    PS. In nature there is no fix age. You are 13 but in reality the one is 11 and the other is already 15. Therefore the age difference between a couple is more important than the real age.

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